Why does everyone keep asking what i play?
Post replyMonday 24 Jul 2017, 6:49pm
People use other people's lyrics and melodies all the time. People play covers without informing PRS so the original writers get no royalties for the performance. In the unlikely event that someone rips off your lyrics and turns them into a song, two things can happen. Either it goes little or nowhere and you really in truth lost nothing, and at least someone out their got to hear your lyrics (which is what you really want isn't it?) or, they get success with the song. So you need to make sure you have dated proof to show how long you've had those lyrics. You can mail them to yourself, signed for delivery, and not open the envelope, to act as evidence for a Court to open should you ever need to. Or you can email them to yourself each time you write a song to show a dated email trail. That way if someone rips off your lyrics and writes a successful hit song you get everything you wanted. Your song is now famous and you can sue for your royalties, and best of all you did no work!
I say in the unlikely event of anyone ripping off your lyrics and turning them into a song as, well, let's face it, you're trying hard and can't get anyone to do it when you want them to, so what are the chances of someone doing it when you don't? Once (if) you're successful, whole different story, and then you'll want yo be a lot more guarded. And I wouldn't put all of your best material straight out there for the world to snatch.
Okay, easy to say I know as none of us want to get ripped off, but anything is better than leaving your work in a box til it gets sent to the tip when you eventually die with the world never having had a chance to see it. You have to start somewhere so taking a risk on one song isn't exactly going to lead to catastrophe.
Monday 24 Jul 2017, 6:51pm
[quote="China_in_your_hand"]Hey profusia....im female. Just so ya know[/quote]
Lol hence the T'Pau reference?
Guys, gals, whatever, it's an all embracing forum (hmmmmm mostly) lol
Monday 24 Jul 2017, 7:01pm
I write by first putting my own words to someone else's tune and then put my own music to the words.
Monday 24 Jul 2017, 7:13pm
[quote="China_in_your_hand"]Can see the point...i did start out as a poet myself.
I was a bit confused as to what people call 'having a melody' as i can tap out a rough sound on keyboard using literally one key, just as a guide...? Dont own a keyboard right now though.
Dont know what sorts of companies to message like that, open mic ive tried but general is that they all write their own and want to keep it that way.
The online was the last post and just a random idea i had, not a true rep. of everything i want to do.
Id really damn agree that some amazing folk songs are born of poetry, and other styles too. Lot of songs especially the folk and gospel i love are less about musical ability but about the words and stories they tell.
Should put some lyrics online i guess but i get worried someones going to use it without my knowledge...
Im bad at internet too, as in it be a good idea to post some lyrics as a response on this post? Someone clarify and might put an example out there, see the opinions[/quote]
So it sounds like your songs DO have melodies. Have you managed to record any of them even in the simplest imaginable form?
Why do people keep asking if you play an instrument.... Because you do but you won't admit it lol
If you have an iPad, I think Garage Band is a free of charge download for it. Gives you a virtual keyboard (along with other instruments if you ever get adventurous) and can record what you write. Must be something similar available on other tablets.
I tend to use Symphony (on an iPad mini) which similarly gives you a virtual keyboard (and optional instrument sounds) but also lets you write the melody dots as sheet music. I think it costs about seven quid. Sounds like you might find that trickier though so Garage Band is probably a better bet.
I've written a lot of my melodies one fingered that way. (I'm not a pianist). You'll need help with the harmonies though.
Monday 24 Jul 2017, 7:18pm
[quote="x51WSH7N"]I write by first putting my own words to someone else's tune and then put my own music to the words.[/quote]
That's an interesting approach. Only trouble is, when most people write new lyrics to other people's songs they come out as bawdy schoolboy coach songs lol
Monday 24 Jul 2017, 9:19pm
Hmmm, dont have an ipad haha, only a samsung tablet...im not that rich! Cant seem to get decent keyboard etc apps on android? Know any?
T'pau is one of the loves of my life, couldnt live without 'em to be fair!
Never thought of the context that maybe i technically can make melodies in a sense....guess i could with the right equip but still not a musician really in that way.
Writing to others songs then changing the music too...aw sweet memories that, the first song i wrote i did the same thing to One that got away by Katy Perry
Monday 24 Jul 2017, 9:24pm
If anyones interested, thats a song i wrote in sorta blues-rock style but open to suggestion about what genre of music it would fit into. Opinions welcome!
He was a dancer
When she sings a song its only a song,
When she plays to win its only to lose,
She dances in dreams where nobody sees,
Nobody dreams like the little girl dreams,
Where she can dance and wont hit the walls
When her brother was sick she stood by him,
Hummed him his favourite, tune in her mind,
They wouldnt approve if she sang too loud,
Afraid that they would lose her too,
But she was a dancer,
They couldnt take it from her,
Take her stage and put black to her name but always
a dancer a dancer,
Yet her brother still died,
With the sun in his eyes,
A lifetime to see that hed never live out,
Cos he was a dancer, died there with his sister,
The world took it from him and she vowed on that day,
She'd dance down those walls, just to put a smile on his grave,
But she was a dancer,
They couldnt take it from her,
Take her stage and put black to her name but always
a dancer a dancer,
When she sings a song its only a song,
Whst her parents want to hear but still they fear,
Life took their dancing boy,
What for their dancing girl,
They say she dont like music, she dont play her songs,
But she was a dancer,
They couldnt take it from her,
Take her stage and put black to her name but always
a dancer a dancer,
Monday 24 Jul 2017, 9:50pm
Bob dylan plays musical instruments.But a lot of people say its just poetry.
But i do not share that view far from it hes a legend of guitar and songs.
The music has being the pallet hes put his lyrics poetry to always the music.
I think because of how bob dylan sang it caused controvesy not to mention
lyrical content, define Bob Dylan Hendrix called bob the messiah.Well you
have to agree dont you.even adels covered his tracks the mans music is
timeless.
Monday 24 Jul 2017, 10:06pm
The lyrics seem strong. It would definitely help to understand your rhythmic and melodic ideas for it though. I find myself unable to quickly come up with a melodic approach for it.
Tuesday 25 Jul 2017, 12:44am
China me old girl I would not spend too much time on here given weight to what people think or say on here with regards to pushing your songwriting forward. Granted I've not read your lyrics in full detail but literature is beyond me All I can say is just type into google songwriter for hire and you like I will see there are loads of hire sites out there. Posters will pontificate till the cows come and beyond keep your pinch of salt handy as you embark on your journey and be your own driver and critic.
With regards to your lyrics it reminds me of Mayo Angelo or Toni Morrison something like that we used to have to read it in stir on the optional literature course.
Good writing perhaps its not intuitive and instinctive enough to be a great song lyric to me it seems like poetry.
I think its a case of boiling things down and working with music to understand how your music fits, Anyone can play guitar so why not just get a cheap acoustic learn some chords and actually work out how music fits your lyrics.
Some of the others are quoting Dylan but whatever they say Dylan has always and always did set out to be a musician a better example would have been Lenord Cohen. Either way theres no either or if you have not found willing musicians to take on your lyrics start learning guitar or piano and do the basics yourself as the Prof has picked up there is no rhythm or swing on it's literature. Most songs are over within a couple of minutes and even prog rock epics are paired down lyrically .
I'm guessing the lyrics are about an underapreicated sibling ?
TD
Tuesday 25 Jul 2017, 9:58am
Writing to another tune means that the words fit right.
China, the differing number of lines and the differing lengths will make it harder for anyone to put music to them, hence the trouble the prof's having. Pick a rock/bluesy song and rewrite to fit it. Don't tell anyone what the song was and see what a music writer can do.
Or find someone with music and rewrite to fit. Work on your rhymes, too. Even Lemmy could rhyme, and he rhymed marathon with paralellagram.
Tuesday 25 Jul 2017, 10:04am
He must have been gutted when they changed the name to Snickers.
Tuesday 25 Jul 2017, 10:34am
I purposefully picked that song becsuse my mate has sung that one once before and it sounded good, so when people say its poetry, has no rhythm etc. then i know its actually playable.
I do have songs that rhyme as well, but not all my songs are verse chorus with rhyme like that, some are some arent. The better ones are against cliche but there are ones that repeat and rhyme ive written.
Prefer Leonard Cohen to Bob Dylan anyways if we are going down that comparison....
I can write anything really from story type ones like that to 20 word repetitive songs, depends what mood im in.
Also, Psycho Killer by Talking Heads is an incredible song and it wouldnt figure to say that has any kind of conventionality, rhyme or equally lengthed lines.
Tuesday 25 Jul 2017, 10:36am
And Ewan MacColl before Leonard Cohen as well, for a folk songwriter
Tuesday 25 Jul 2017, 12:19pm
I don't think X51 was suggesting that's its essential that songs should rhyme, more just that it can make it easier for a composer to sense the rhythm and meter when there is rhyme, and when the form in terms of line length and number of lines is a bit more formalised. (I might be wrong X51?) So that's not to say He Was A Dancer couldn't be a great song, but just that its hard in its current form to compose music to, without more musical information to go on. Again, not impossible - it could be done, and no doubt there are some very talented people out there who can, and do, work that way.
I was once asked if I had any poems to submit for an event. I submitted a few and went along to the event, imagining that if they picked one to be recited they'd let me know. They did pick one, but didn't let me know, so the first I found out was hearing it read out at the event by someone who clearly couldn't sense the rhythm and meter of the piece and basically completely murdered it. I was gutted, as would have happily got up and read it myself had I known they'd picked it. Its not always easy for people to sense the writer's rhythmical ideas from just words, but can be easier when there's a strong written form to a piece, by which I mean some pattern to the line lengths, numbers of lines in verses, and perhaps rhyme etc.
Some of my songs rhyme pretty much everywhere, others rhyme on either verses or bridge but not both, and a few don't rhyme at all. They all work (in my biased opinion naturally), but they were either written as melody first and lyrics to follow, or melody and lyrics hand in hand, which makes it easier. But then I'm a melody person so that drives everything for me. Its just how different people think and work I guess. Some people (probably largely chordal instrument players such as pianists and particularly guitarists) tend to compose harmonic progressions first and then search their creativity for melodies and lyrics to superimpose over the top.
Let's just say, if you picked that song as a challenge for us to compose to from scratch with no further info; you picked a hard one lol
Tuesday 25 Jul 2017, 12:27pm
Haha maybe its a tougher song than it needed to be in retrospect!
Should probably dig out a simpler one and put it on here, not so bothered about posting lyrics really but most are on paper so takes time to find and type up.
Erm...whats a bridge? I should know i think but actually dont...
Tuesday 25 Jul 2017, 12:41pm
In simplest terms, its the bit that stands out as different from the rest of the song. Often (though not always) with a sense of mood change (usually through a key change or switching from major to minor or vice versa). Sometimes referred to as the "middle 8".
Most of the stuff I write is fairly simplistic in form following an old jazz standards kind of format with only 2 or 3 sections but modern pop songs seem to have numerous differently named sections; Verse, Pre-Chorus, Chorus, Bridge, etc which I've never gotten into so someone else here might well be able to better explain.
There are no rules though, and you shouldn't think you have to write to a specific form. You can also Google this stuff to get an understanding. Here's one link that popped up...
http://www.songstuff.com/song-writing/article/song-form-overview/
Also this one for more specifically understanding the term bridge...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_%28music%29
Tuesday 25 Jul 2017, 3:35pm
Lets just cut to the chase as the lyrics are owed a test , my mate Davis came over fore elven's this morning and we had a go at your tune China.
It's just a simple one take recording with very little trimming and probably not as tight as it could be but I thought I would have a go and hope it helps and for the purpose of this topic. Other could follow suit.
Let me know you think. I'm happy to take it down after the purposes of the experiment have been served if you want me to.
TD
https://soundcloud.com/tricky-donavan/she-was-a-dancer-1
Tuesday 25 Jul 2017, 4:24pm
Keep it up if you like, im not fussed about it. My computer has crashed out but ill put aishas version on my youtube when i can and post the link to it....
Would be interesting to see different peoples versions of the same lyrics yea.
And ah, i sort of get what a bridge is then...i usually just freeflow and write whatever comes to mind to suit what the song is for or about, can end up simple or bizarre but often i have a song in mind its a reflection of. He was a dancer was written when i had Runaway by Bon Jovi stuck in my head, for example.
Tuesday 25 Jul 2017, 7:33pm
Rhyming and making sense is part of a songwriter's skill; that's what I meant, prof.
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