Are music makers too unimagnitive these days
Post replyThursday 20 Oct 2016, 1:24pm
I mean like some people only want to play rock , blues c&w jazz and think that any band that has a cetain music as its core influence has to restrict itself to that in terms of tempo , guitar solos and the movement of the music at all times.
Were people more open to taking risks playing free'r in decades past ?
Thursday 20 Oct 2016, 4:49pm
Ooops....looks like that E13 has kicked in...he's going mixylodian !!!!!
Thursday 20 Oct 2016, 6:11pm
personally I thought you were practising your crapytonian scale in 1st potion.
Keep Rokcing
TD
Friday 21 Oct 2016, 7:39am
We do have a need to be accepted. That can make us play safe. A band with a big following risks losing at least some of the followers if the style changes too much.
I don't bother with 13s, sharpened 9s and so on, and I have no interest in playing a style I don't like—unless I'm helping someone else out.
Friday 21 Oct 2016, 9:20am
Outside of the minor major and 7ths I think most people don't bother cause its the glass celling of their scope or can be too time consuming to push on through bit like Matmatics most can grasp and atain basic competence in basic arathamitc but when you go past the borders of Algebra its a harder language.
But you got cost through a basic rock , country , pop , etc set list for life just knowing the basic minor and major postions nobody cares Jazz of course if a different ball game , an aquired taste and less common postions can be strenous strugle on the old bunch of fives.
Anyway my point was my debating line was more about the unimaginitive attidue around these days which does not have to mean more chord work or more complex music, I'm just talking about seeing bands that are revrent to one sound one style , and will not take risks , (a song with one chord could be imagintive and original as one with a 100)
Actually in the long run artist like Bob Dylan , Gennisis , Neil Young , Johnny Rotten into Lydon , The Clash , The Beatles
All took radical journeys away from what had be defined as their style and despite derssion it often paid off.
Friday 21 Oct 2016, 9:28am
A scale as complex as that T.D. is achievable by all in time. I find ( now i've built up resilience) i can manage 8 potions and play some truly unique music in said scale. Maybe this is the key to your question in the original post.
Friday 21 Oct 2016, 12:11pm
I get what you mean, TD. The record companies want to sign only the artists that will make big money for them.
Once a band is signed, the company will only release as singles the album tracks they know will sell. One heavy band released a rock ballad. Af
The artists get the blame for it. It's happened for years but is maybe more noticeable now.
Saturday 29 Oct 2016, 5:02pm
If you mean do people just stick to what they know - then yes. There are few people out there willing to try their hand at lots of things and fusing genres. They are very few and far between.
Monday 31 Oct 2016, 9:05am
True, Mujician. Some have gone into a new style—but forgot what made their songs well-liked.
Sunday 6 Nov 2016, 2:16pm
TD, it's more than playing safe. I've found over the sixteen years since I started going online that Cyberland has the a higher concentration of mind and personality disorders than our own towns and so on.
We go online because for both good and bad reasons, we can't do the same things face-to-face. I live in a small village; going online lets me go shopping for specialist goods and find other musicians. Others can't do f2f because of work or family ties, some can use it to help with social anxieties. Still others are so destructive, and wilfully so, that nobody wants anything to do with them and Cyberland is good hunting for new victims.
The destructive ones want full control over everything within reach. Every song they work on has got to be done their way or not at all—. That goes as far as someone else's songs.
I've known a player that wants to run a band online. She rejected a drummer on the grounds of the first song she heard with that drummer on it was 'the wrong style'. No second chance, nor a clue as to the right style. The keyboard player's demo of the song she wanted done was of the same style as the drummer's song. The difference was the drummer was playing bass snare bass-bass snare bass snare bass-bass snare-snare with rolls, whereas the keys player's demo had a drum machine or MIDI track set to drum snare all the way through. The vox were so low in the mix that you couldn't hear the words, there was no difference between verse and chorus, there was no bridge to break the boredom, and one of the two guitar tracks kept cutting out The drummer sent his drumming track again, by itself. This time the girl rejected it because its tone was wrong for her. It was a MIDI kit, which she hadn't picked up on before. She was assured that the slight drum machine-like tone wouldn't be noticed under other instruments, but she wouldn't listen.
Such behaviour from onliners isn't at all unusual. Anyone angry at me for saying it is like it themselves. If anyone thinks I'm sexist for talking about a woman control freak, there's men ones as well. One refuses any singer that doesn't sound like his favourite singer, but doesn't say so in his ads.
Sunday 6 Nov 2016, 6:36pm
x51: I get your drift, I see ads where a certain type of person insists "talened musicians" - "seasoned pros" etc. needed to develop and play on their songs, which amounts to work for free on amateur songs. That tells me straight away, an amateur, a dreamer, bless 'em.
Monday 7 Nov 2016, 10:34am
Fido, that reminds me of someone on modelmayhem. She says in her profile that she will never do an unpaid job, but she advertised the jobs she wanted done as unpaid.
Monday 7 Nov 2016, 10:37am
This ad's much more like it: http://www.joinmyband.co.uk/classifieds/seeking-good-humoured-eccentrics-for-different-kind-of-band-t922997.html.
Too bad I'm miles away from there.
Tuesday 8 Nov 2016, 9:15am
OK time to get back to the OPs comment. I think generally people like to be told what to like, it's a social acceptance thing, people prefer to share something in common. It might be a football team, or a team to "hate" - its safe ground. Music has it's safe places too, in the 1990's boy bands were safe aimed at young girls, the Britpop was for the boys. It was the same in ealier years. Anything that diverts away from this norm can soon cause a person to be shut out, so that type usually try and align with other outcasts.
I recall being about 12 years old and I found Seven Seas Of Rhye by Queen and Sylvia by Focus in a bargain bin in my record store. I thought they were amazing, at school no one knew of these and generally said bad things, but at that age it seemed more a time where individual choices in music were thought of as a good thing. My friend was into ELP. We seemed to feel adventureous by finding and "getting into" unusual musical things. Have to say once A Night At The Opera came out and Queen became the darlings, I lost interest.
I wonder if the younger generation have lost that sense of adventure and individualism... hope this doesn't sound like an essay for school or uni degree!
Tuesday 8 Nov 2016, 12:48pm
Some food for thought so far lads.
I think what I was getting at in the original post is that even the liberal market place of the rock / pop scene which was once an out let for instinctive creativity is now dominated by Anal conformists. Some of whom have moved on with their instrument through a rigid level process and now only utilise what they've learn to create.
I recently got involved in a Bosa Nova band but it was bogged down by a lot of time punching and learning the music like the record to the tiniest detail. Anytime someone came up with something a bit original one little brat would strike it out due to it not being 100 per cent authentic nevermind if it sounded good , bad or intresting we never got to ascertain that. Just that is was not Bosa for our Nova. Jeez talk about watching paint dry !!!!!!!!!!
Obviously the latin types thought their genetics give them carta blance on what was acceptable and not. Of course this was not down to their own musicanship more down to only being able to fucntion in a rigid thought process anything outside of this thought process being uneacptable.
I guess fusion and risk are a diry word for todays hipsters.
Look back at blues bands like Cream and the Yardbird they were pushing it in another f;';';'g direction took risks and also came up with songs outside of heir Blues blue print on ocasion.
Its like all these peole who say they want to form Bluegrass and Gypsy Jazz they want to latch on to one tried and tested formula and then spend eons trying to make it play like Dijon or whoever. Like alehouse music it gets taken over by Middle class pedantics who take the fun and free expression out of it and turn it into a dull exhibition. Witness the amount of Flaminco schools and Blues courses touting for business
trying to delude the desperate punter that all it takes is lots of study and cash to sound like your improvished idols most of who were barely literate.
And lets not get started by the guitar solos you hear on taped together tracks on soundcloud if I hear one more ill placed pentonic run I'm gonna open my long forgotton stash of Blue Nun down it in one and delude myself it's a refined experience.
On here you get lots of dip sticks warning poitentinal applicants , must be good must be briliant high calabar most of the times nothing is linked in and when you get to hear them its on some viruss ravaged sound file and the music is nothing amazing just learnt and rigid forumula dervived from more inspired times.
Keep Rocking
TD
Tuesday 8 Nov 2016, 6:07pm
Maybe I misunderstood then TD. I do know sometimes there can be differences of opinion on exactly how a part should be or NEEDS/SHOULD be played! Well, according to certain band members of course. Wasn't Richie Blackmore of that ilk? He was going to play what HE wanted and that's it!
I think it's a matter of "horses for courses" - find the band that allows you to express yourself rather than feel having to meet their standards which is mostly the domain of pro players who can call up any style/vibe/accuracy of playing etc. on demand, that's why they are "Pro" and expect to get paid for their skill.
Tuesday 8 Nov 2016, 7:21pm
Ritchie Blackmore eh? Check out his start in the business with The Outlaws. Joe Meek's houseband. Forget playing what you want. Every note was forced on him. Probably explains the 'old' attitude now though. Bitter and twisted......he must be posting here somewhere surely? Whingeing away like the rest.
Tuesday 8 Nov 2016, 9:41pm
Interesting series of opinions, especially when one thinks of some of the posts on here like...where are all the gigs? are covers bands killing music? Where are all the singers/drummers/keyboard players? Why can't I find a band? why does everybody hate me? etc,etc....."Find the band that allows you to express yourself rather than feel having to meet their standards" Good point Fido but isn't that just it? If we all did that aimlessly "expressed ourselves" rather than thinking of our audiences and within a band learning to accept the ideas of others, cooperate and work, dare I say, in harmony then we'd have no bands or groups at all just ensembles of egoists musically masturbating for their "art" until the public, record companies and other musicians bow down at their feet and give them the acclaim they so obviously desire and feel is their right? So if you join a Status Quo, Rockabilly Trio or Gypsy Guitar Band and get miffed when you put in a Jimi Hendrix lick and it gets poo pooed don't be surprised, You're not there to be a Jimi Hendrix clone you're there to be part of the band. Horses for courses and if the gig pays....you play what the punters want. Even if that Jimi Hendrix lick shows awesome technical ability it’s the right thing in the wrong place. Technical knowhow and for guitarists manual dexterity is not the same as creativity. Knowing scales inside out back to font and in multiple positions is not being creative. If anything it’s further from real creativity than you could possibly be. Muscle memory and habit take over from taste, choice and feel in flurries of hemi-demi-semi quavers that can baffle the eye and ear but leave the soul unnourished. We all play because we enjoy it but if you’re in a band and playing live then you have to think of your bandmates and the audience before yourself. And if what you’re playing in a band tortures your sensitive creative soul so much then….well, there’s the door mate. Quaid is right Blackmore and lots of others earned the right to be choosy, moody, artistically minded and to behave like spoilt brats after learning their craft and indeed making a bloody good living from it, by not expressing themselves. There's the wonderful Spinal Tap scene where Nigel talks about expressing himself through his solos which are awful of course. So true to life. Let's face it if you or I had anything musically meaningful, inventive or creative to offer then maybe we wouldn't have to express ourselves through solos. Perhaps we'd be living like the aforementioned Mr B. not wasting time on here recounting our not so glory days of the 70s 80s and 90s. Having said that, I disagree with some posters here. I think there's lots of imagination in modern music. Not modern rock or poop, sorry pop, but modern classical music, jazz, new fusions of diverse musical forms (which is why sometime Jools Holland's show is still very good viewing) that show a great deal of imagination and creativity. Lyrically music is fresher than ever too. Which leads me to say that some of my fave bands, Cream included, had the most banal uncreative lyrics, often really cringe-worthy....Purple, Zep and the adolescent, pseudo satanic quasi-religious meanderings of my beloved Black Sabbath make me red faced when I hear them now. And whilst feeling ill when I see him, don't be so quick to condemn Cowell because if he knocked at our doors with a six figure contract to record lift music on bazoukis through wah wah pedals we'd all sign it even though we'd like to think we wouldn't…Cometh the hour, cometh the man, however awful that man is.
Tuesday 8 Nov 2016, 10:00pm
What I hear you saying, Not Too Old, is that there needs to be balance. You're right.
Something else I'm finding out is that some disorders will limit what someone will do. OCD can make you refuse to do anything new because something awful will happen if you do. Someone with Aspergers might find it hard to understand that anything can be done another way or might not be able to handle it being done another way. BTW I work with some Aspies and like being among them.
Tuesday 8 Nov 2016, 11:46pm
I think some of the sterotypical Aspergesrs characterisitics sums up the current era of music making littered with rules and regulation marshalled by fools and strangultion of off the cuff ideas.
The 90s seemed to be a free for all , and the 80s , 70s what sounded good was good. I think its looking like the idea that musical people are less creative these days then the good ol 70s.
NTR you mention Blackmoore earning the right , but in music ultamtetily there are no rules the lad up the road from you Peter Hock didnt pay any such dues before buying a bass guitar of fhis art teacher after getting the idea for a band during a Sex Pistols gig.
He did not spend years honning his craft just switched on the amp expressed himself and people reacted I would bank on it that the music of Joy Division has shaped society more then that of Deep Purple.
I was not talking about a random Hendrix solo , I was talking about fusion being somethig that only Chefs are into these days while musican's stick rigidly to one style.
If its so good to this one word
M I L E S D A V I S !
If there's someone like him around these days he's not whipping it the dorian in music he's doing it at a Michelian star resturant.
Creatives that would have onced found expression in music are doing it in Business (finance permiting ) the service sector
or other avenues.
The rules an regulations of instrumental music continue to alinate a genration of raw talent. The losser is rock music.
Quote " If we all did that aimlessly "expressed ourselves" rather than thinking of our audiences and within a band learning to accept the ideas of others, cooperate and work, dare I say, in harmony then we'd have no bands or groups at all just ensembles of egoists musically masturbating for their "art" until the public,
record companies and other musicians bow down at their feet and give them the acclaim they so obviously desire and feel is their right?
Many bands were doing this in the 70s some failed some soared one made millons doing it ref : YES !
Keep Rocking the System
TD
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