Paid with a pint at best
Post replyTuesday 1 Aug 2017, 9:13am
Soooooo is this the way we are going where stingy bars venues and events pay participants with a pint of beer (no fcuk spirits , no spirits ) or some left overs from the kitchen if their being generous.
My boy is starting out he tells me at best he gets a pint at worst nothing. I know there is a paid gig route but that is also becoming more and more narrow aimed towards the cover band of the week.
How much money does an unproven band need to pay into their pipe dream before they can start even believing they can earn a bit of money from it ? IYO ?
there are several notable venues and events that don't pay the musicians nothing for providing the nights entertainment , granted the risk of the open slot is someone could be truly awful but thats rarely the case the majority British mediocrity personified. Still they deserve some payment. I'm guessing the majority are struggling singer songwriters who are quit competent but a bit stuck in the shadows for various reasons.
Of course there are quit a few that won't even give you a pint of beer , I wouldn't be surprised in a few years if the venues will start charging musicians an entrance fee to get up and play.
I was stoned in the 70s for most of that decade, remind us fellas if it really was the same for struggling musicians back then ? -Thanks
The nation that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing
TD
Tuesday 1 Aug 2017, 10:06am
Our local went from weekends with good bands that were paid around £200 to student bands that were paid nothing,Works out part of the student course was to form a band and go out and gig, this they did and there were a lot of them all musical wanna bes all going to make it as singer songwriters yeh I know we've all been deluded at some point in our musical lives lol anyway the student bands turned up played for an hour to their mates who all bought their glass of shandy drove the locals out as they really were'nt into experimental music, the result pub closed venue lost. Kids will have to learn to play the music people want or wont be long before there are no more venues
Tuesday 1 Aug 2017, 11:22am
I'm not in it for the money, but I know that others are.
Tuesday 1 Aug 2017, 11:28am
Ah yes Tricky, the '70's ay !! Well what i can JUST about remember was ( on my jaunt ) the Marquee, Bridge House, Half Moon, Amersham Arms etc paid bugger all for a try out.....you were more likely to get 'expenses' from your local, albeit the aforementioned venues were considered 'the step up'. So no old son.....i don't really see any change.
I'm afraid from what i witness these days ( in fact i don't even bother going out locally anymore because it's the same sh*te from one band to the next ) most of these pubs need to open their ears wider. If they can't be bothered to support new music or a wider selection of covers, then they deserve to close. Your last sentence Mike worries me. So where's the future ? And by that i mean, most of the music played in pubs are not the choice of the next generation. They are turning their future income away. Bugger 'em.
Tuesday 1 Aug 2017, 3:03pm
It's just the way things are now sadly, pubs are empty Monday through Thursday my way and the weekends haven't been much better with people away and the crummy weather. Music is so hit and miss as to whether you'll bring people in or drive them away that it's an expense you can do without as a landlord.I've also noticed when trying to get gigs you never get to speak to the owner at a lot of venues, just a manager who isn't given the authority to put on music or events. Either that or you're talking with one of these young managers for a month or two to find they've gone and you have to start again with a new one, then the next and the next until the place changes hands or closes it's doors.
Tuesday 1 Aug 2017, 4:37pm
SNAFU you download music for free you play for free
a bit of a pisser but that's how it is:-)
pubs can barely make a profit unless they sell food, so no dosh available for bands
just see how many pubs have gone or going under.....
Tuesday 1 Aug 2017, 5:38pm
Tricky mentioned the 70's.
The front half of the 70's was pretty OK, as the majority of entertainment was live music. I was doing the London circuit & gigged probably 5 nights a week on average. Pubs was where the money was, as club pay depended on who you supported. The more well known the main act - the less you got, so you could go away & say "We supported X, or Y", or whoever was flavour of the month. Had a residency at 2 venues mid-week with the same band for 2 years, and the place was heaving every gig.
Then came 'DISCOS'!
These guys had 2 cheap turntables, a couple of red/green lights, the top 30 , and played for 25% of what bands used to get. Completely killed the circuit. We hoped it wouldn't last - but it did.
Many venues (certainly in this area) stipulate that a band needs to guarantee 30 extra bums-on-seats before they get a gig - and if you don't deliver, you don't get paid. I knew a great guitarist in a good well followed local band who did a gig at a local pub. The pay was £80 + 10% of the bar takings WHILE THEY WERE PLAYING. They packed the place, (everyone knew they were to buy their drinks whilst the band was on) and at the end of the night they were handed £100! When they asked to see the till-roll they were told to get out. Of course, the place was black-balled, but they just got a Karaoke in and it was business as usual.
No, fings ain't what they used to be...
Wednesday 2 Aug 2017, 11:13am
Getting gigs in my area is hard - most pubs and clubs are either booked for 12 months or only deal with agents.
Thursday 10 Aug 2017, 5:22pm
everyone knows that you can feed a family and pay for all your gear with exposure to an empty pub on a Tuesday night, what do you need money for?
At the end of the day if your a decent covers band, you might get a few quid for playing a venue.
Beyond that you have to be an idiot like me who does it for the fun of it. And if your lucky you may just be able to land a slot on a Friday / Saturday night in a half decent venue, in exceptional circumstances the crowd may actually consist of people besides the other bands on the line up.
Were all hypocritical and partly to blame for this though, we all want people to play to and we all would love to get paid for entertaining a crowd, but how often do any of us go out to a gig that were not playing at in a small music venue. the answer is for the most part, not very often. and generally us in the bands are the only people that are going to like the music being played.
Thursday 10 Aug 2017, 10:23pm
That depends on the music you play, Thrash.
Again it comes down to bucks or art. Seems you can't have both - unless you're very, very lucky.
The social club circuit is probably the best musical income source, as long as you can put up with bashing out the same old stuff that everyone else is. But the clubs tend to book through agents, so now we're talking about a bands 'portfolio' of:- websites, pro-sounding c.d's, photos, video (live).
It's a treadmill.
Saturday 12 Aug 2017, 7:05am
My nearest town had a showcase with loads of bands. I stayed to the end, but each band left as soon as they'd played, taking their friends and family with them. The first band played to a full room; the last band played to an almost empty one.
Sunday 13 Aug 2017, 12:43pm
The organisers should have 'auditioned' or at least viewed the bands first, and, obviously, put the most popular band on last. Or left a last slot for the band voted (by the audience) as the better.
Of course... some could have left out of embarrassment - but I wouldn't know as I wasn't there.
Thursday 17 Aug 2017, 12:52pm
I think we all know the live music scene has changed a lot in the past twenty years and that change has accelerated in the past five. Everyone here makes valid points: pubs are struggling,and it is cheaper to get a dj/karaoke/free juke box to get punters in and staying in a venue, There are also changing tastes in music, I don't think m,any of us in the 90s adapted our sets to cover acid house and rave music and rap/hip hop and modern r'n'b which no matter what our feelings towards them, are the most popular music genres today. How people listen to and enjoy music has changed too. It's very insular and individualised now. Young people still go to festivals, clubs and arena gigs together but they don't listen to music together as we did, music doesn't seem to be the small scale social bonding force that it was, There is also let's face it a shortage of cash for so many people, so even if there is a band they like performing locally it might not be possible for them to go to the local,,However, there are still venues that specialise in live music and for all their faults we need to try and preserve and protect them. Sometimes the changes are happening all around us: the ever hungry, expanding and growing Wetherspoons which do cheap food and cheap beer have over 1000 outlets but none as far as I know offer live music. (Maybe we should lobby them...real ale and live music do go together well!!) I live in Liverpool and there seems to be three separate circuits, sometimes overlapping venues but on different nights. There are the very established venues where the same bands play the same venues to the same people and have done for years (often playing the same bloody set time and time again (I was going to mention a few local bands here but thought better of it!!!!), the venues who offer a variety of bands mainly catering for the 40+ age bracket who deal with agents and the like and the city centre venues which are the places where most young bands playing original material play. I think these latter venues are the ones who are bucking the market as the young bands will play for nothing and as has been stated above, often are made up of students who are required to play by their courses. Here in Liverpool and the surrounding area we have at least eight state and independent music/performing arts colleges (or departments) and McCartney's hostel for rich foreigners, sorry I mean LIPA, so I can understand why they will play for free as the competition to gig is so great but this impacts on young local bands who would have had paid gigs. The door/take percentage thing is common too in these venues as is the pre-ticketed gig ( a successful gig providing the venue with thirsty customers at no cost). The social club scene in the north west is no where near as big as it was but for me the thought of playing in a wedding/function/cabaret type band sends shivers down my spine. Even city centre busking seems to be the preserve of student or Eastern European ensembles (hope that doesn't sound xenophobic it's not meant to be) I think as musicians, hobbyists, part-time or fully pro we have to bite the bullet and play for perhaps less than we did in the past if we are to keep local live music going. It's a bitter pill and ironic when we consider that major artists now make most of their money from live gigs that used to be promotional tools for albums. Sadly I can't see it getting any better from a financial point of view even covering costs let alone making a living from music is increasingly difficult. Maybe we should all set our own individual or band financial line in the sand and under no circumstances cross it. Oh and if you're going to the bar, mine's a pint of stella!!!!
Thursday 17 Aug 2017, 2:18pm
Oh and if you're going to the bar, mine's a pint of stella!!!! quote and there you were Another Guitarist taking issues with rich foreign student colleges and and those street Eastern Euro Jazz bands (I always thought those fellas were Iraqis ) and your ordering mass marketed foreign market stuff like Stella don't you see your fuelling the problem , son.
As for Wetherspoons they do (or some of them do) offer live music it's mainly the awful wedding band type covers bands though at least thats what I've seen. Maybe we need a fringe festival for music where a few biggish acts could prop up new acts who play free but can hope to get some money in a bucket if people like what they play at the end from what I understand the venues don't expect a cut from the performers , stage it in one city for a whole month in the summer
TD
Friday 18 Aug 2017, 11:24am
I probably am inconsistent Tricky but just find Stella a very consistent lager. Good to know there are Wetherspoons with live music though, can you be a bit more specific....then again the only pub i can remember in Kent is "The Little Gem" which lived up to its name, so i wouldn't know them anyway!!!!. Fringe festival is a nice idea but logistically it'd be a nightmare moving every month but mighty oaks etc.
Friday 18 Aug 2017, 11:59am
' The Gem ' has been left to rot A.G. i'm afraid to say.
Friday 18 Aug 2017, 12:20pm
There's the Submarine in Portsmouth, but it's a dive.
Friday 18 Aug 2017, 5:11pm
Quaid that really saddens me. I remember it being run by two little old ladies (who may have been sisters?) and being just about the smallest pub I've ever seen. X, I don't know that one but sounds like I'm not missing much!!
Friday 18 Aug 2017, 6:03pm
Sorry man. I used to get in there myself. There's a FarceBook for them ' Save The Little Gem '.
Sunday 20 Aug 2017, 1:37pm
I think that one shot across his shoulder & hit the wall, Jim.
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