Multi track recording for bands
Post replyWednesday 7 Dec 2016, 1:38pm
Just wanted to share a thumbs up for Zoom R16 digital recorder !!!
First, not a big fan of Zoom but I purchased a Zoom R16 digital recorder for around £300.
records 8 inputs at once, onto their own track so you can mix later (the 16 in the name means you can add up to 8 other track as dubs i.e 16 track... It does exactly what it says on the tin, a bit of an all in one pack.
Personal, I then dump the track files into Cubase and do the mix and the tweak trickery on PC.
but if you want a cheep demo you could just straight mix on the Zoom and dump onto CDs for the price of a day in a studio.
I'm impressed for the money, only thing to note it's a bit flimsy so you have been warned.
it can also double as a USB interface for you home studio computer DAW software.
Thought this may be useful, but then you may know of similar kit.
Please share...............
Friday 9 Dec 2016, 2:57pm
Depending on what I'm doing I use 3 or 5 mic setup for drums.
and record the band in one go and mix later.
or
record the band on 1 track, for drummer to over dub on 5 tracks
mix drums down onto 2 tracks the record each other musician and mix down to two tracks delet the original band on 1 track that gives 6 tracks to build up the vocals.
Saturday 10 Dec 2016, 11:32am
This isn't a bad idea actually, many pros have been using direct to disc and more recently direct to flash recording for some time now because of the obvious reliability and logistical advantages..... some of the newer higher end audio interfaces are now including a direct to disc/flash option on them too now.
Out of interest.... KeyTarMan do you uses a click for the drummer and latterly sync to a click in cubase? if so how do you find it?
Tuesday 20 Dec 2016, 10:15am
if I'm writing in my studio I lay a basic drum pattern down using EZDrummer and once the rest is recorded I re-do the drums. Cubase does have a click/beat facility but I find it most un-inspiring to play too.
For recording demos at rehearsals I use one of two methods:
1/ the band plays the song and we record onto a single track once we are happy we use that as the click track so to speak, we then individually record our pieces.
2/we mic the drums and place screens around them (clotheshorses with duvets we di all the instruments, and place the vocalist in the center (his mic pick up the band and gives some atmosphere, you can always gate that channel to remove over spill during vocal gaps) we play at low volumes and then we mix the individual tracks in my home studio adding backing vocals and any dubs if needed (i.e over boo boo's) sometimes if its a goo take we just mix and print.
Cubase Pro (other DAW's for that matter) have a tool for finding the beat and syncing up, you really only need this if you are going to cut and splice bits.
There is no reason you can't use EZDrummer out of a laptop to headphones for the drummer if he's a spreads up and slow down type of guy. I once gave a drummer headphones out of one of my keyboards with a sequencer running so he could keep time
Tuesday 20 Dec 2016, 12:36pm
Thanks for the reply, there's nothing at all wrong with using a click track for a drummer, it's an art in itself and one which, unfortunately many drummers appear to be terrified of..... it can be a fantastic training aid for all musicians too.
That's an interesting way of doing things, kind of oldschool which is always fun and if the band is tight enough then you can catch some great vibe that way.
If the drummers' timing is drifting have you discussed it with them?... After all it's sort of a drummers' main role to keep everything in time and if they ain't doing that properly then........
I use cubase pro myself, have used various incarnations of cubase for about the last 20 years or so, and the multitrack drum quantising is ok but it can be a lot of work if your drummer is really inconsistent, sometimes i've found it quicker just to program something from scratch with bfd3 or use their audio to capture and convert to midi with Slate Trigger..... if the drummer doesn't like it then show them their takes in cubase where they can both see and hear what the issue is.
Have you ever thought of just capturing the drums with your mobile rig, you can spend much more time getting mic'ing positions just right, use more channels for spot and room mics, room mics can add some serious punch and aggression if you hit them very hard with compression... many people don't realise that many great drum sounds use them and not reverb to get a huge sound...... then track the rest of the guys back at your cubase rig... it's a different discipline and one that can REALLY highlight any deficiencies a player might have so they can work on them... you can do a whole bunch of other things working that way too as it's much more flexible.
Would be interested to hear if you've tried any of that
Tuesday 20 Dec 2016, 4:37pm
In studio I either use 3 or 5 mic configuration on the kit and a mike the other end of the studio.
I gate the snare (and hi hats on 5 mic setup). if the kit is not a good one I use the bass, snare and hi hats as triggers for samples and mix back with the over head and distance mic. time allowing.
but live or rehearsal I use 3 mics straight
back to studio: I'm not a big fan of compression on individual instruments, as it squeezes out the life for drums and they sound wooden. I some times use a limiter to keep the peaks under control. parametric to tune the individual drums to fit in the mix tonally.
I have done what you said hit drums hard with compression and mixed it back with the un-treated this way you get a bit more tone to parametric with.
Reverb not a good choice for drums... maybe a 100-500ms of plate reverb on a snare for a slow song
back to drummer timing, I did once see a drummer with a flashing light as a visual clue to timing....
One good point for a drummer gradually speeding up it can make a song feel energetic and going places and a rigid time can feel the momentum is just not there. so don't go over the top on strict timing... even EZDrummer has a setting to vary the timing slightly makes it sound a bit more real.
Talking old school I learned to sound engineer totally analogue, many of the skills are transferable to digital and if you don't have the right VST plugin....... go back to the old analogue way.
Tuesday 20 Dec 2016, 5:18pm
If you're getting lifeless drums using compression then something's not right.
I started on analogue boards like yourself many years ago too and yes there are pros and cons to digital and analogue ways of working...
On a snare i'll typically use a dbx160, they have a relatively slow attack and a programme dependent release so they let the transient through, quite often i'll use 10db of reduction at 4:1 and a limiter afterwards to catch any peaks as the 160 is fairly slow, the same for toms also but you may have to expand them after as the decay might be too much, you'll probably have to mix some dry floor tom back in too if you loose bottom end.... the same with your kick...
do you use parallel compression at all? usually i'll work on three main drum busses, one for all the shells, one with an 1176 compressor varying between 4:1 for 'lighter' material and 'all buttons in' for heavier stuff, with a fast attack and release, usually have to scoop out some mids pre compression, i'll then send these two busses to a third 'drums sum' bus which i'll send HF stuff like hats and OHs too and balance before using some gentle compression, 2:1 very slow attack and very fast release to 'glue' it all together.... this gives REALLY exciting and because of the parallel (new york) compression you keep dynamics there too.
Many people make the mistake of using one compressor instead of more gradually and naturally using two or even three in series..... mixing 'into' compression is a better way of thinking about it rather than clamping it down after...
As yourself i'm not generally a fan of much reverb on drums, usually just some early reflections and possibly a darkish plate.... the waves abbey road plates are excellent and on sale at the moment, you need a BEEFY machine to run it on though..... plate 4 is superb with its valve emulation.
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